Piano Finish

[Goldenear]

Hi Guys,

Here my first post

How to make the a piano finish.?


Kenneth

[seek]

a little practice you be alright, there are many ways and rules for apply piano finish, another word is french polish, mixture of shellac and spirits, prepare the surface , sand it thoroughly, sand them down reducing the grades of the paper to the finest, seal the surface of the wood with plaster, gently rub the shellac into the surface. let it dry reapeat the sanding and rub over and over again for 10 coat, you should be able to get it there.

seek

[Goldenear]

hI,

Any more details?
I.e type of shellac,etc..


Kenneth

[KenC]

Hi Seek, guys

I tried practicing french polish on a piece of un-planned wood some time ago. I started with 500 grid sand paper, only after a few rub, the sand paper is clog up with wood dust and nothing seemed to be "polished" with that... could you advise me on the sand paper grade for the process?

I also read about violin varnish... anyone know where to get them?



Cheers
KenC

[yeo]

Hi kenc

The correct procedure after staining is apply the varnish first (could be lacquer, polyurethane, shellac + spirits) then after it has dried, sand it with say 200 grid sandpaper.

The varnish crystallizes the "imperfections" on the surface, thus sanding clears it away.

Then varnish again, now sand with 500 grid.

Repeat process with finer grid as you go along.

After 7th or 10th iteration, it shld be very smooth.

I learned this cool tip frm gabriel.

Yeo

[KenC]

Thanks yeo,

Will follow that to the dot the next time..

BUT...

How about before the stain? what grad sand paper works? cos 200grid jus clog up instantly... I got stuck there :-[

KenC

[yeo]

Hi kenc

No sanding required before staining.

Sanding is done after varnishing.

Yeo

[The_Sifu]

Hi All

And there i was thinking it was a piano BLACK finish that was required!! Silly me! :-[

So I guess your after a high gloss finish then? As everyone says.... one major part of it is
the REPEATED process of applying your "sealant" of choice, then when it has dried, rubbing it down again...then apply a new coat of sealant and rub it back down again etc etc etc.

By doing this, your making the surface smoother and building up the thickness of the coating.

To the beginner, they are looking for a "shiny" surface and many are happy with that. To the discerning, or those who aspire to high standards as the minimum, one looks for great "depth". By this, one observes just how deep the image of a reflection appears. It's hard to explain this via text...but I hope you get the idea.

A master of Piano Black finishes would have to be Steinway & Sons! Perhaps you can do a search on the way they finish their pianos to see how far they go to satisfy the discerning  ;)

Just in passing...at great expense...if you want the ultimate in Piano Black finishes and have lots of spare change....talk to Steinway and send your "items" to them  ;)

Shellac i should add is a natural product. Unlike polyurethane, it is rather easily damaged by water...so its not a really durable finish on its own. Applied on a table for example.....a hot cup of coffee or a cold glass of water will "leave their mark" as they say. So if its going to encounter such usage....keep this in mind!

Polyurethane is great! But the problem, as I have found out, is that it is an absolute bitch to remove.
Paint stripper does NOT work on it. So you need to mechanically remove it. And when you have intricate wooden pieces...it is very very difficult to strip it and still keep all the original wood there. So if you see that you might have to remove it for some reason....dont use this one!

So...maybe you need to investigate what other varnishes or coatings are out there.

The good news is that you need to do quite a bit of rubbing and that will get you into good shape and you thus can save some money not going to these new fangled designer gyms!!

Good luck dude

Cheers

The Sifu  :-?

[KenC]

Hi yeo,
Quote,
No sanding required before staining. ?
 
Sanding is done after varnishing. ?

Do you mean on new wood surface? I really don't get it... ?:-? If sanding is not required on rough spiky raw surface, or badly scratched and cut surface???? ?:o And still produce smooth finishing??? I'm completely lost....

Hi mark,
I understand what you meant by the depth of reflection... The reflection plane is "below-the-surface" kind of look... Lusty... :-X

Not going to do "thick-thick + deep-deep" coat, I just happened to have an eye soring table with loads of coffee stain on it, taking the opportunity to learn & feel how much work is required for any decent looking "Kumpong-polished" finish. :P.. I think orbitor sander helps in this department... If result is poor I'll just pop by the nearby mart of a piece of RM8 table cover ;) Now... DIY is actually expensive in this disposible culture.... :(

Cheers
KenC

[The_Sifu]

KenC

Why not post a picture of this table? Maybe we can offer our thoughts based on what we see?

Cheers

The SiFu  :-?

[seek]

hi ken ,

do your table with your power sander, then fill the surface with wood filler mix with what ever stain you intend for the job, let it dry than sand again with fine sand paper , clean the dust now apply the finishes, let it dry sand again with very fine sand paper (1000) , apply the finishes again , just repeat a few time, you be there nothing will go wrong. like what yeo say, that's one of the many ways of doing it. i read this from a book.

seek

[colin]

Hello gang!

There is 2 approach here: shellac and spray. Ultimately spray gives the best result (as I belief)

Firstly, use car repair filler (red) to fill in the gaps between joints. Let it dry overnight and re-fill the next day if necessary.

Second stage, primer, is probably the most important. It is to make sure that the gloss coat does not seep into the wood and to fill imperfections in the wood. Apply at least 2 coats of primer, and the 2nd coat should be wet sanded to 800 grid minimum. Be very gentle with sanding because ANY IMPERFECTIONS WILL SHOW UP no matter how many layers you spray afterwards.

Spraying is easy and you can get away with 4-5 layers if you do it under perfect windless condition. Final layer should be sanded up to 2000grid minimum. Also, never spray on early morning because the damp will kill the gloss.

Sometimes people 'metasol' or 'autosol' on the finnished layer but I never get to do it.

Only 2 simple rule: perfect primer finnish, and spray at hot, zero wind environment.

Good Luck!

 

[KenC]

Hi colin,
your describtion sounded like hi end car paint job!! ;)

Guys,

is the polyeuretene paint we always read in the net what our local paint shop call "2K" paint? Or the "bright" coat or the "gross" coat?

Cheers
KenC

[vmps]

hi ken

the polyeuretene paint is those shit that cost around RM 12 to 20 that we use for the timber flooring, cheap and good

vmps

[KenC]

I had a search on "Piano Black Finish", looks like its similar to French Finish but even closer to Autoshop paint Job!!!

steps (overly simplified)

Fill cracks, holes...etc with wood filler. Let dry
then dry sand the surface.
paint with primer and let dry
Fill up uneven surface with filler again and let dry
spray black paint dry,
Lightly sand the paint with finer grid sand paper
spray PU coat, let dry, wet sand
spray Pu coat, let dry, wet sand.... until 2000grid sand paper...

THEN use tuttle wax to polish the final finishing til your teeth sparks !!

Can help save gym fee.... or must emply an orbital sander for the job


Phew...


KenC