Author Topic: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp  (Read 49372 times)

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Offline assendor

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2010, 12:46:38 PM »
Ok OK Ok..

This did not answer your question now did it.. HA HA!!

Yes you are right, Neither AC nor DC can really pass a capacitor.
Nothing can "really" pass the capacitor.

But what it can do is this.
It can take charge, and discharge again.

SO what happens, I mean since we really cannot have any Electrons "passing" the capacitor in
reality??

YES it's quite correct.
When Theoretically pass a AC current trough the capacitor, what really happens is this.
IT charges a little bit when you have the positive part of the SINE WAVE of the AC is Running,
and Discharge the same amount when the AC Negative swing comes along.

How can this be drawn and illustrated by Drawings..?

Offline assendor

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2010, 12:53:04 PM »
Now as we could agree the Small time of 1/100th of a second with maximum current of 40x1.41(mA)
will not be enough to Charge the 10.000uF capacitor much.

Maybe one nano volt or so..?
Then when the Sine wave reverses this ultra small added charge to the capacitor will be
discharged again by the reversed current. THE Charged up Electrons on the one side added, will then again
be released and the capacitor is again back into DC 12condition again.

Some phase change will happen to the Voltage/Current, but very little.
Other things that may happen is added distortion from the foil in the capacitor moving due to the
added and removed charge.

The Resistor here can only "SEE" the AC 4volt voltage, no matter what the DC volt of the battery is.
IF we remove the battery and connect only the AC source directly, well it would still be the same in the
terms of the resistor.


Offline assendor

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2010, 01:06:08 PM »
Drawings.. ERR:


Offline assendor

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2010, 01:16:08 PM »
I don't know if this is what you wanted to know?

I'll try more..

Offline assendor

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2010, 01:25:09 PM »
Now we can discuss how much it really will charge and discharge Curve vise,  Blah Blah,
Cause this will not be like this in practical, but in theory it will be like this.

Also will it only charge positive from 12volt to a higher voltage and back to 12volt??
Well it depends on where your AC starts from when it's connected.

more likely it will vary around 12volts.
SO it will go to somewhere 11.999999999999 Something, and
12.00000000000 Something.

SO again,
THE capacitor is NOT really letting any of the electrons Trough it,
it only let's the AC current Borrow some electrons, and to store some Electrons in the bank while
there are a surplus.

I hope you got some of your question answered, if not, or if it was totally misunderstood by me,
well please ask again.
Another thing.
If someone finds flaws in my explanation, PLEASE CORRECT ME!! This is really important. THanks.

-Jonas

Offline ian444

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2010, 02:02:26 AM »
Very Good Jonas, I now understand how AC current can pass.

I still don't understand why the phase of the signal is not inverted...

See the diagram, when the cap plate 1 charges positive, the cap plate 2 would have to be more negative than plate 1, as there is conventional current flowing in a clockwise direction? But for conventional current to flow in a clockwise direction, plate 2 must be more positive than 0V.

Ahhh,  ;D so that is what you are saying is, the voltage differential across the cap is very small at any instant in time, almost negligible.

I know there is no phase change across the cap as indicated in the diagram, but that was the part I was having trouble with. If plate 1 goes positive then plate 2 goes negative, but it seems, plate 2 also goes positive, BUT it is just a LITTLE BIT negative compared to plate 1. Have I got it??? And therefore the tiny phase change too?

Thanks very much for your help :)

Wow, the simplest things I take for granted...I don't ask why my micro works when I program it with assembly language, thank goodness...

Ian.

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2010, 02:41:02 AM »
Hello Ian,

As far as I understand you, and understand it all myself,
well then you have got it right. :)

Have been wondering also why many people prefer using a rather extremely high
value capacitor in series with the signal, when it in theory would be plenty with a much much
smaller value.

It might be the explanation lays in the Phase change thing?
The larger the value of the capacitor, well we must assume the smaller the phase change.. ?
OR maybe this is working differently?? NO it must be so, it has to be a fact that with a Super
large value cap, phase changes very very little.

You say smallest things.. When it comes to the understanding of things, well small things is what matters.
If you later can understand so many small things that you can glue this together to a HUGE thing,
then you GOT it right.

Problem normally, we believe we understand the WHOLE of something, and then later when the
small details appear We start to asking us self questions, and then start to wonder how it really is.

I like your questions very much, it's a pleasure trying to answer them.
It would be sad if my understanding is wrong, so that you get wrong info.
Let's not hope this is the case in a too high degree.. :)

These days I'm trying to think trough all the things learned in Audio.
It's complicated to glue it all together.

Perfect Source, Perfect preamp, perfect power amp, Speakers, ERR: IT's hopeless.
Where should we start??.. ERR:.
It's VERY frustrating!§!"#¤

-Jonas

Offline ian444

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2010, 03:57:54 AM »
Thanks again Jonas, I will ponder more and you have put me on the right track to understand this.

One thing I have learned over the past year or so has surprised me a lot. That is, in my system, that buffers used for impedance matching have made a surprising improvement to sound quality, even when I thought I had no need for a buffer because no impedance matching was required. I have a buffer at each end of a 5 meter interconnect, if I take either away, sound quality suffers noticeably. And recently I put a buffer/mosfet source follower in the MengYue amp as said in a previous post, before the output tubes. It's not really something you would try unless very curious, because it doesn't make sense, the input impedance of a 6P1 should be quite high enough to not cause a problem.

The GU50 pentodes are becoming attractive to me, it's a worry.......

Ian.

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2010, 04:39:13 AM »
Hello Ian,

GU-50, OK..

Sorry I haven't got around to playing with them yet.
The Ceramic sockets I got for them where completely useless ERR:!!

Looks proper enough, but it is not.
Tried to fit two tubes, one went ok.. with a doubt,
next one broke.

I don't understand those socket's. Have seen something similar for smaller tubes before.
Used them too, but had contact problems and burned several tubes.
I don't know what they are intended for, must be some kind of failing rocket systems or so??

Got to get some other sockets ordered for the GU-50's before I try anything more with them.
Just don't know what of the sockets that is any good? Errr!

-Jonas

Offline ian444

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2010, 10:52:04 PM »
Do you mean these sockets here Jonas?

Offline assendor

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2010, 11:23:27 PM »
Hello Ian,

Yes that is How they Look. ERR::!!

Do you have a way to "operate Them" ==??

-Jonas

Offline ian444

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2010, 11:42:57 PM »
I haven't bought any yet, that was the ones I was thinking of buying. All I know is that the pins on the tube are not evenly spaced so you have to orient the tube to the right position to fit them. Apparently they are very difficult to remove too, a special tool can be used if it can be found, don't know what it is though. Some sort of miniature wedge applied between the tube base and socket seems to be the tool used by some people, so I imagine the "real" removal tool might have 2 or 3 opposing mini wedges to lift the tube from the socket...

Ian.

Offline ian444

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2010, 11:46:14 PM »
But then looking at that picture, I don't see how you would get anything under the tube due to the skirt on the socket. I heard of one guy who uses some sort of noose and a piece of rope tied to a handle and he extracts them that way...

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2010, 01:32:35 AM »
Hello Ian,

Maybe these are better?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GU50-LV3-5U8C-5U9C-GU-50-Ceramic-Tube-Sockets-X8_W0QQitemZ390090553217QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad3357781#ht_2129wt_1165
They looks to have a better pin holder type.

The ones I got(The ones you show there) They are just a, I don't know how to explain it,
it is not spring type, it is a Hole between two, or in one metal thing..
Possibly made for usage in Rockets with 100's of G's.

The other ones is holding the pins so tight it's almost impossible to get it out, it is impossible
without a tool.
The casing around it all makes it even worse.

IF you use these Types without the CAGE, then you have to remove the top lid of the tube.
Or else you have to find another way to earth the metal on top.
Read this somewhere, there possibly is some danger to get electric shock if not.

You can remove the top by heating the top with a Heat-gun, some say.
Guess this is cool.
Others mean the tube then looks "Naked" without it's HAT on.. HA HA!!

-Jonas

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Re: Mengyue/Music Angel Mini tube amp 6P1 pp
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2010, 01:34:11 AM »
HA HA HA;, BTW, Look at these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-Electron-Tube-GU-50-GU50-socket-solid-cage-USSR_W0QQitemZ280445839406QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414bdfe82e#ht_500wt_956

Why do they sell with tubes stuck inside+? I wonder... Guess the same problem with those,
tubes are impossible to get out.

-Jonas